KL> In fact, God allows even corrupt governments to exist (for a time) and uses them as instruments of judgment.
KH> Take your pick. The Apostle Paul's teaching is that any government, corrupt or not, is allowed to exist by God and is used by God for his good purposes.
KL> It's presumptuous to give specific examples because God is "behind the scenes" as such, accomplishing his plans via the existence and perhaps overthrow of governments.
KH> Again, take your pick among any government in history which has met it's demise.
JQ> Keven its not my responsibility to defend your argument. If you make the claim God overthrows a specific government you need to cite specific examples. The very fact you make this claim only suggests you have the evidence already in hand. But then again why kind of criteria would you use? What would be your methodology to identify what caused a nation's government to fail? If you don't have a set method of evaluating why nations / governments fail or collapse, then all you would have to say "God did it" without offering any proof. Which you have done.
KH> The difference is between permitting and promoting. God does not promote evil, but he permits evil.
JQ> Drum roll, and the difference is?
If God allows actions to be committed that God knows is wrong, then God is equally responsible for the said actions, as if God had committed the very actions himself.
KH>God is ontologically responsible for creating persons, but he is not morally responsible for the evil that persons do given free will.
JQ> If we are God's "creation" then God is morally responsible for our actions. if God is perfect then God's creations is equally perfect. Free will is bandied about way more then it needs to be. God built us, created us, put us together. We have set functions that God embed in us, claiming that we have free will is false, creations do not have free will.
If you claim that God created a world were we would freely go to him that isn't free will. There are expectations...